“Female friendship has been my obsession as a writer for a long time, mostly because I feel like we don’t see a good representation of it,” says director Susanna Fogel, whose new film, “The Spy Who Dumped Me,” opens in theaters nationwide this week. “It often kind of revolves around a big feud, or there’s a guy that they’re fighting over. There’s something going on that feels like it doesn’t speak to all women’s relationships or friendships. So I wanted to tell this story.”
Known for creating film (“Life Partners”) and television projects (“Chasing Life”) that focus on personal stories and character development, Fogel’s second movie, “The Spy Who Dumped Me” follows in a similar vein, but this time set in the world of tradecraft. It centers on Audrey (Mila Kunis) and Morgan (Kate McKinnon) — two best friends from Los Angeles — who find themselves entangled in an international espionage adventure when Audrey discovers that her ex-boyfriend (Justin Theroux) is a spy.
Co-written by Fogel, a Providence, Rhode Island native, and David Iserson, “The Spy Who Dumped Me” is summer action fare, but it’s also more than that. The movie allows room for Audrey and Morgan’s longstanding friendship to be featured equally on the screen alongside the shootouts and car chases.
Fogel, in Boston earlier this month, spoke to the Banner about the types of stories she wants to tell and the skills she’s learned in directing two feature films.
One of things I loved about the film is the relationship between Mila Kunis and Kate McKinnon. It seemed very natural and very organic.
Susanna Fogel: There’s something extra there. I knew Kate a little bit, having worked with her on my first film. She had a very small part as an exceptionally bad date that the main character goes on. I didn’t know Mila. It’s kind of tough — you’re really kind of playing matchmaker when you’re a director. You’re guessing that they’re going to have chemistry based on two separate fact-finding interviews. When I met Mila, I liked her. She was so warm. She was so easy to be around, so down-to-earth. And Kate, too, is a really warm, nice person. They’re not caught up in social media. They’re non-narcissistic women who have really good girlfriends. I talked to both of them about their friendships in those meetings, and really was hearing about how much love they have for their friends, and figured ‘They get it.’
Your first film came out in 2014, and now you have this second major feature. How have you changed between the two films as a director?
That’s a good question. You know, I think with that film, it was so character-driven and contained, that there was a feeling and a mood I wanted to convey. I didn’t think as much about the role of the camera because the scope didn’t really allow [for that]. When given more resources, [I asked] ‘What is the absolute best way that I can approach this visually?’ I think I’ve become more visually opinionated, and thus a more interesting director, probably because there’s that whole other tool of storytelling. Thinking about more than just the characters — also thinking about what makes it a film, what makes it cinematic.
My first film had a very limited theatrical release, if anything. It’s mostly a Netflix movie. But when you’re making something that undeniably should be seen on the big screen, [you think,] ‘How can you make that the best experience for the audience? What does that mean?’ I’ve never thought about that before. I’ve never written anything that required a movie theater. Everything could just be downloaded because it’s two people talking in an apartment.
Now that you’ve completed this film, do you see yourself going back and forth between the indie and commercial worlds, or is too early to tell?
Are you kidding me? I have trouble staying in the moment. It’s less about ‘indie versus big budget’ and more about the types of stories. I think each story tells you what it wants to be in terms of the size. I’m interested in all different genres. I’d love to do a drama. I would be very open to doing a family adventure movie like the ones I grew up on. It has to have some relevance to the world we’re living in, and if that relevance is people thinking escapism because the world is burning down, and now they’re going to want to see that movie, that’s fine. There has to be urgency to the project, even if it’s like, ‘We’ve never seen women do this and we need feminism at a time like this,’ or ‘This really small drama is a beautiful look at a man being vulnerable.’ There are a lot of different stories that I think I would love to see if I could tell.
Did you feel any pressure when making this film in having to prove yourself to anyone? Does it feel like you’re often a spokesperson for women directors?
The first thing is, ‘Did I feel like I had to prove something?’ By the time that I was actually in there making the movie, I was so consumed with the actual task of doing my job well, I was too tired to think about the other level. I also think that the really important part of setting yourself up for success is, as the director, you’re also managing a team — it’s not just a pure expression of your creative vision. Are you able to hire people that are supportive? Are you a good boss? Do you treat people in a way that makes them want to do their best work? Do you hire people that respect you and don’t question you in front of other people? There’s all of these nuances to the job that are way more managerial, that can make the difference between whether you are in power on the set or not. And I think that part doesn’t get spoken about enough. Just hiring people that don’t ‘mansplain.’ I hired a stunt coordinator who’s done the Bond movies and the Bourne movies, and he’s like this enormous, extremely masculine guy — and he could not have been more respectful. He has two daughters and an awesome stuntwoman wife, and he was completely empowering.
The spokeswoman thing is interesting. I think there should be enough content by women and about women, and by women and about men. There should be enough diversity of what’s going on that no one movie has the pressure to be everything, and I think that’s the case with any representation. You want to be able to tell the stories about human beings.
